Building Armies

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Building Armies

Post  Wedge on Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:50 pm

I have the following questions on Army building rules:

1. Is consumption for armies the same as consumption for the kingdom? (i.e. is it offset by farms or does it need to be paid for directly with BP from the treasury?)
2. The cost of resources is added to army consumption every turn. This doesn't make sense. If you provide an army with magical weapons you pay for them when you build your army. You don't keep paying for them every month, much less every week when you're on campaign. This would not apply to potion, poisons or etc.

My suggestion: cost of creating an army is equal to it's CR in BP plus the cost of resources. Sustaining an army cost consumption that is offset by farms but the cost of resources is not included. After a battle expendable resources (potions, poisons, etc.) need to be repurchased with BP.

3. Army leadership bonuses are based on charisma but kingdom bonuses for the general are based on strength. WTW?


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Re: Building Armies

Post  Bella on Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:04 pm

1. The consumption is offset by farms.

2. Your example is what I was planning so we appear to be in agreement on that.

3. I will look it up in the book at home.
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Wedge on Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:07 pm

Next questions:

4. When an army is "in reserve" what does it do? Does it train? Stand guard? Patrol? Go home?

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Re: Building Armies

Post  Bella on Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:25 pm

I would assume all of the above as the people will rotate their active duties.
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Bella on Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:39 am

I remember the group making a couple of armies.

One was at varnhold. I think one was at Le Pew and one at Tuskburg. You may have had one more at drelev. The Varnhold troops are to far away to react to the invasion by pitax.

You have heard of the following armies on the move.

1. one very sizable army headed to Fort Drelev (The rat boy will lead the army to defend)
2. The Fey in the forest reported to you that a flight of Wyvern were camped out and headed in the direction of Tuskburg. (Pythia will lead this one.)
3. Some Trolls were heading for Le Pew (Specs can help lead if you want)

The rest of the group were at the tournament and received word of the impending attacks, but the battles are starting by the time Wilbur can teleport back to anywhere.

You can consider what armies to build now, but I do not want you to power game them as you really only took 2 months (or less) to really build them up.

All of your armies, including the varnhold army, can have no more than 20 CR worth combined. Also, don't make the Varnhold army a dump army. You should make it what you thought you needed there before you knew of the Pitax attack. It does not have to be huge, but be realistic.

Post any questions and army builds here. The Mass Combat rules I sent you has a lot of sample armies you can use and build on.
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Wedge on Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:43 pm

From what I recall from the last session, we were planning on the following armies:

3 medium armies of militia archers (100 warriors lvl.3 , CR1, Ranged Weapons resource). We were going to locate these armies at Olegrad, Boca Raton (renamed Ford Dredlev), and Varnhold. One of the armies (probably the one at Olegrad) should also have the Fortification Building resource with the idea that this army can go to the assistance of Varnhold or Le Pew.

1 small army of cavalry or (preferably) mounted infantry* (50 fighters lvl. 5 or 6, CR5). based at Tuskberg. The idea would be to move this army to wherever it's needed.


In Boca Raton, we will have a DV=23, and OV= +1. Plus our Alchemist rat. As long as the opposing army is not much higher then CR5, we have a decent chance here.

In Tuskberg, we will have a DV=24 and OV= +5, plus Pythia. Depending on the CR of the enemy army, we have a good chance here as well, despite the lack of ranged weapons or spells.

If we can move the archers from Olegrad to Le Pew, we will have DV=17**, OV=+1, plus Specs. Otherwise we have nothing here. Even with the archers, we won't have much of a chance unless the CR of the enemy army under 3.


This gives us a total CR of 8. Without additional kingdom building, we can probably afford one or two more medium armies of militia archers. One of these would be in Le Pew. If we can also bring reinforcements from Olegrad and merge the two medium armies into one large army (not sure of the rules on this) we would have a large army (200 warriors lvl. 3, CR4, Ranged Weapons resource) DV=20** OV=+4

* mounted infantry is not in the mass combat rules but should be easy to play as a resource: Transportation (2BP): increase the armies speed to that of the mounts (presumable horses).

** includes +2 to DV from the Fortification Building resource. Not sure how this would work considering the town defenses and merging armies where only half the troops have this resource.

Do we know the composition of the enemy armies enough to gauge their CR?

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Re: Building Armies

Post  Bella on Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:30 pm

No to the composition question beyond what I posted. Sample armies may be in the sample army section. I will say reports are that the army going toward Boca Raton is larger than medium. The Slither would also know that the army from Pitax he fought before was quite large.

I will reiterate again, though. You can have up to a CR 20 army between all your forces. I am comfortable in giving up to this number..... silent

I also only mentioned the three armies that were spotted. Pitax has a very large military with more than three regiments.
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Bella on Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:31 pm

Just a thought. If you want. You can post any questions here and then email yourselves (not including me) your army ideas. This way you don't have to worry about inside knowledge as I plan my attacks. This way I can react to any surprises from you accordingly during the battles, not ahead of time Very Happy .


Also, you can assume that you were able to pull in some o fht esurviving solders from Boca as well as Slithers comrads to make the army bigger than you first planned. (use the consumption for the bigger army though).


Again. Just a thought.
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Wakko on Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:40 pm

Can we get help from any of our allies? Would the fey field an army? What about the lizardmen?
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Bella on Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:40 pm

You can use your allies. You need to pay consumption for them and any upgrades, but it is a way to quickly build up.
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Wakko on Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:13 pm

What are the specs for the following armies? DM would know size and numbers.

Fey Army
Lizardman Army
Kobold Army
Centaur Army

The first two may be the only viable ones. If we could send the Fey and Lizardmen to aid La pew, that might turn the tide. We can promise them extra land once the threat is taken care of.




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Re: Building Armies

Post  Wedge on Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:13 pm

I'm confused. We talked about building some armies before we went to the Rushlight tournament but never set down the details. This was before we knew of any threat from Pitax so the armies we discussed were weak (see my previous post).

Are these the armies we're talking about? If they are, the Wilberd would oppose using soldiers from Boca, since they were recently our enemies they might not be very loyal. He would be OK using the rat-folk. He would also oppose build armies of lizard-men, centaurs or fairies since those creatures are not part of our kingdom and would be more like foreign mercenaries then a national army.

If we're talking about raising armies after we (Pythia, Slyther, and Specs) learned about the threat, we could try to hire the kobolds, lizard-men, and/or the fey as mercenaries. (I don't think the centaurs could reach us in time.)


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Re: Building Armies

Post  Wakko on Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:18 pm

I understand your confusion. The groups I mentioned were ones I referred to as allies. I know that only the kobolds have land within our kingdom (1 hex). The fey are right next door and we are on somewhat friendly terms. The lizardmen are somewhat neutral. We have let them settle a hex near our borders, with ongoing diplomatic relations. I don't know if they would fight for us. We are on better terms with the centaurs, but I fear they are too far away (as you mentioned). I wanted to know the relative strengths of these groups, just in case we called for their support. But that would be up to Mike. For our 20 CR, I think we should count on what we could draw from our settlers. That is what we were in the process of setting up before this mess started.

As for Boca Raton, I think we installed a loyal group of citizens/soldiers, led by the ex-leader who was loyal to our side. They and the rat people would be a small to medium sized army.

EDIT* The only Kobold army is a CR4, and we qualify for the prerequisites. If Mike allows, we can use these to buffer Tuskberg, since they are close and don't travel well.


Last edited by Kyras Cobb on Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Wakko on Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:41 pm

How many additional armies can we field in such short notice? Are there any visiting mages at Tuskberg who can be pressed into service?

We should get word to Jhod Kavken at the temple of the Elk to go to the assistance of Le Pew.

We had also talked about a royal Guard. How about using the CR3 in the guidebook to protect Tuskberg?




WilberdGates wrote:From what I recall from the last session, we were planning on the following armies:

3 medium armies of militia archers (100 warriors lvl.3 , CR1, Ranged Weapons resource). We were going to locate these armies at Olegrad, Boca Raton (renamed Ford Dredlev), and Varnhold. One of the armies (probably the one at Olegrad) should also have the Fortification Building resource with the idea that this army can go to the assistance of Varnhold or Le Pew.

1 small army of cavalry or (preferably) mounted infantry* (50 fighters lvl. 5 or 6, CR5). based at Tuskberg. The idea would be to move this army to wherever it's needed.


In Boca Raton, we will have a DV=23, and OV= +1. Plus our Alchemist rat. As long as the opposing army is not much higher then CR5, we have a decent chance here.

In Tuskberg, we will have a DV=24 and OV= +5, plus Pythia. Depending on the CR of the enemy army, we have a good chance here as well, despite the lack of ranged weapons or spells.

If we can move the archers from Olegrad to Le Pew, we will have DV=17**, OV=+1, plus Specs. Otherwise we have nothing here. Even with the archers, we won't have much of a chance unless the CR of the enemy army under 3.


This gives us a total CR of 8. Without additional kingdom building, we can probably afford one or two more medium armies of militia archers. One of these would be in Le Pew. If we can also bring reinforcements from Olegrad and merge the two medium armies into one large army (not sure of the rules on this) we would have a large army (200 warriors lvl. 3, CR4, Ranged Weapons resource) DV=20** OV=+4

* mounted infantry is not in the mass combat rules but should be easy to play as a resource: Transportation (2BP): increase the armies speed to that of the mounts (presumable horses).

** includes +2 to DV from the Fortification Building resource. Not sure how this would work considering the town defenses and merging armies where only half the troops have this resource.

Do we know the composition of the enemy armies enough to gauge their CR?
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Bella on Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:54 pm

You are correct in that the centaurs are to far to help in this attack, but you can always send word to them to be ready incase they are needed by Varnhold.

As far a Boca is concerned, the leader of their army is the father figure of Slither and loyal to you. Most of what is left of the force at Boca were not your enemy. It was their leader that was Kind of your enemy. They only thing Old Boca did against you was attack Le Pew and that was with Barbarians and hired mercs. Non of the rest of what you assumed was Old Boca actually came from them. It was the King of Pitax that was attacking you the whole time Cool . He hired The bard to cause political havoc in Tuskberg, but made it look like Drelev hired him. It was a barbarian body with the owlbear (the barbarians were loyal to Pitax). Still, it is up to you on whether you want to use the old soldiers from Drelev. They would get an auto vetern status and I believe you used one of the small armies you built to clear something out (the boggards?) and they got vetern status as well.

Using any of your allies would be part of the CR 20 limit.

You can use the CR4 Kobald Skirmishers in the rules,

I will create the fey and Lizard man army tonight (as well as any ally npc spellcasters). Use them only if you want.


Because Wilburd put spies in other countries, Pythia in Tuskburg would have gotten word of odd troup movements so she could have started to get things organinzed.

Also, please be aware that there will be no "softening" of the armies beforehand like in the battle for Le Pew. This is a battle on a bigger scale.
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Wakko on Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:00 pm

What is our role in all of this? How much time do we have to prepare ourselves? As I understand it, there are 4 of us left out of the fighting: the Ranger, the Wizard, the Bard, and the Rogue. Almost your typical party. Is there a chance that we could avoid the fighting by taking out the king of Pitax? After all, he broke the treaty.

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Re: Building Armies

Post  Bella on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:50 am

It is an idea and one your welcome to try if you so desire. Since it has been a while since we played last, I want to remind you that I did mention that both his tent and the grounds were heavily guarded. As the DM, I will not stop the group from attempting it if they so choose. I also cannot say one way or the other as to whether ot not it is a good idea or not. It is the players story. Do what you want....

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Re: Building Armies

Post  Wakko on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:18 am

It may be the players story, but players do need some guidance from the DM. There are often things the characters may know about a region or person that the player has not been made aware of. Our characters have more time to contemplate things and discover things than the players have. In other words, our characters should have discovered some things in the course of kingdom building that would help them build a successful kingdom. For example, if someone had advised us (or we had seen from our own experience) that we need standing armies, we might have built them months ago. Likewise, there were no reports (despite the spies we spent BP on) that the King of Pitax was deceitful and could not be trusted. Now it looks like we goofed when in fact, we weren't given any clues that this could happen. I am not saying we should know everything, but the DM could give us hints and suggestions that would come from a host of friends and advisers. I would hope that I gave my players enough hints so that they could figure out things.

Where there any rolls that we needed to make to figure things out? Also, are the four of us useless in this coming battle? If so, then our kingdom is screwed, because three of players have nothing to do but watch our kingdom fall to Pitax.

Sorry to be so negative, but I am just frustrated that we could not have done more to prevent this or to protect ourselves. I am wondering where we went wrong.
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Bella on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:18 am

Fey Army - CR 6

CG - Large army of fey (200 soldiers)
COMBAT
HP – 21; DV 19; OM 8
Tactics: Dirty Fighting; Taunt
Special Abilities: Mobility Advantage; Spellcasting* (ranged)

Logistics
Speed 1 (2 in forests); Unaffected by forests
Leader: the giant pixie you talked to in book 2.

Morale +1 Consumption 3

EDIT: I updated their speed to 2 in forests.
*Highest level spell is lv 2.


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Re: Building Armies

Post  Wedge on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:32 am

I also had the idea of taking out the King of Pitax while we're there. My thought was first talk to the Pitax bard who competed in the festival. She seems to be opposed to King and have a lot of information. We can make our decision based on her advise and maybe she can provide some help - distract guards, etc.

If we had spies that found out about an eminent attack, wouldn't they also know about the armies strength as well? In game context this would mean their CR since size alone is meaningless. The spies would probably also know about resources of the armies as well as the more obvious tactics (i.e. trolls have rock throwing, an army equipped with shovels and axes has fortification, if the soldiers have bows the army has ranged weapons etc.) They might or might not now about other tactics like flanking, taunt, etc.

If we knew (when we were building the armies prior to leaving for the festival) the approximate strength (i.e. CR) of the opposition armies, we would have build our armies to at least be competitive defensively.

PS: I like that Fey army!

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Re: Building Armies

Post  Bella on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:55 am

You went wrong in thinking you went wrong....

Seriously, who said your Kingdom was going to fall? There were signs about Pitax, but they may not have made sense until now. I also remember someone saying they knew Pitax was up to something and they did not trust him. He is the BANDIT king after all (who is only ruling Pitax because he won it in a card game). He was allied to an evil barbarian hell bent on taking over all the river kingdoms and Brevoy.... Everyone from Fort Drelev you spoke with said they did not know about any of the attacks or political sabotage (and nothing was mentioned in any kingdom notes you acquired after you took over). Pitax’s main champion tried to provoke you into an attack at the tournament. There were hints. There are also hints that something else is going on as I said that the vision Pythia keeps having, the person said "SHE" found it. What is with the green hair you seem to find? I will say to that that the research Wilburd is doing will be invaluable in Book 5 (the one you are in).

As to the spies, sometimes the spies you hire do not have access to the King or their battle plans. The topic of building armies was around for quite awhile and I think the party first started talking about them in Book two (that is when I first sent some rules on them).

You really need to not get uptight when the plans you make do not go the way you planned. I would say that the group has done VERY well so far this campaign. I have given you everything you need to be successful in the war with Pitax. Even if you lose a city or an entire army, It does not mean you will lose a war. How many cities did America loose to the British yet still win? I saw that the armies Pitax had coming your way were larger than I remembered so I gave you a 20 CR to shoot for because I saw what you had were not going to be enough to survive. I have been helping in the background to make sure you’re prepared. Just because you do not overtly see me doing things to keep you on track does not mean I am not doing them.

With the allies you have, the armies you are still going to create and the panache of powergaming on the players part, I think you will ultimately do fine.

I will not tell you if you should attack the King at the grounds or not. I mentioned the heavy guards so I did give you a heads up. I will answer questions you have about that situation, but I can’t tell you what to do. All I can do is help make the most informed decision you can make.
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Bella on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:57 am

That remends me that the bard all but said the King of Pitax was behind all the attacks on your kingdom at the rushlight tournament.
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Wakko on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:58 am

Here are the armies I see so far:

3 Human Army - CR 1 NG - (100 soldiers) Olegard, Boca Raton, Varnhold
(3 medium armies of militia archers (100 warriors lvl.3 , CR1, Ranged Weapons resource). We were going to locate these armies at Olegrad, Boca Raton (renamed Ford Dredlev), and Varnhold. One of the armies (probably the one at Olegrad) should also have the Fortification Building resource with the idea that this army can go to the assistance of Varnhold or Le Pew.)

1 Human Army - CR 1 NG (100 soldiers) Tuskberg Militia (called up to protect Tuskberg)

1 Human Army - CR 5 NG - (Tuskberg) 1 small army of cavalry or (preferably) mounted infantry* (50 fighters lvl. 5 or 6, CR5). based at Tuskberg. The idea would be to move this army to wherever it's needed. Moves to support Le pew, then we should see.

1 Fey Army - CR 6 CG - (Fey Lands) Large army of fey (200 soldiers) Moves to support Le Pew.

1 Human Royal Guard - CR 3 LG - (Tuskberg) This is the castle guard. Paladins 5th level.

Total CR used so far: 18. That would leave us 2 CR worth we could improve one of our human armies or the Fey army.

In addition, there are the Lizardmen, Kobolds, and the Centaurs. The lizardmen probably have there own army. I say we do not call them unless absolutely necessary. The centaurs probably have 2 or 3 armies, but they are too far away. I would only use the Kobolds as a last resort.

1 Kobold Army Skirmishers - CR 4 LE - (Kobold Lands) Gargantuan Army of Kobolds (1000 soldiers)

How does that look?
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Bella on Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:06 pm

The armies were all in the field already. No army about to hit you was stationed in or around the city. Pitax has MANY more armies in the field that he may or may not be mobilizing. Since all it takes is a note from Pitax to the leader of the armies already outside of Pitax, it is hard for a spy to warn you in advance that this army is coming and it has this and that.

If you win this battle, you can have the spies help you learn of possible other troop locations and specifics. The spies in pitax are probably oblivious to what is about to happen. Again. If the King had a private meeting with just the leader of these three armies, told them what to do and they left, it would not be odd for a king to talk with his leaders and there would be no way for anyone else to know.
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Bella on Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:13 pm

If you can combine some of the smaller similar armies into a larger temporary regiment, it might be better as far as the rules go. Say you throw 3 small armies against my large* one. I will use my large army to crush one of your small ones and continue down the line. You can break them up again after the battle if you choose. Just an fyi.

Edit: by large I meant larger than yours, not large - 200 soldiers.
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