Building Armies

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Re: Building Armies

Post  Bella on Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:29 pm

I added the moral and consumption to the fey soldiers. You only have to pay for your allies consumption when they are active in the field. This is a weekly charge. When they are at home, you do not have to pay the monthly charge for them as they can feed themselves.

For your armies, when they are active, the consumption is weekly. While they are not active, they have a monthly consumption instead of weekly (you still need to pay your soldiers). Any cost for the armies will first be taken out of the excess consumption from your farms not used by your cities. After that it comes from your BP.

So when at war, you may not want to build anything so that you can focus on your armies.

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Re: Building Armies

Post  Wedge on Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:34 am

Admin wrote:You went wrong in thinking you went wrong....
When did I say I went wrong?

Admin wrote:Seriously, who said your Kingdom was going to fall?
I certainly didn't.

Admin wrote:You really need to not get uptight when the plans you make do not go the way you planned.
I'm not getting uptight because things are not going according to my plan. I am frustrated because of how the situation is being present to us - all mixed up as far a chronology and character point of view. The way I wish you would have handled it is:
First, have us create the armies that we would have had before leaving for the Rushlight tournament. This is before we knew we were going to be attacked, much less which cities would be attacked.
Then tell the story from Pythias point of view with all the information that she would receive from spies, scouts, allies, etc. This would not include information that we learned at the tournament.Then we would know how much time we have and what the threats are and could make our decisions on troop movements, hiring the Fey, etc.

Admin wrote:As to the spies, sometimes the spies you hire do not have access to the King or their battle plans. The topic of building armies was around for quite awhile and I think the party first started talking about them in Book two (that is when I first sent some rules on them).
Spies might not know what the kings plans are or which armies are being sent where but we should know the basics, at least in rough terms: kingdom size, economy (robust, middling, weak), loyalty (Is the populace very loyal, neutral, or opposed to the king), stability (very stable, stable, on the brink of collapse), military capability (Ex.: 10-12 armies of CR3 to CR7, a total of ~40 CR, plus a contingent of spellcasters.), relations with their other neighbors (friendly, neutral, hostile). This is pretty high level information that may be available from Knowledge rolls such as geography.

I appreciate the fact that an armies CR is not written on it's banners. In the real world the capabilities of a military force is based on it's size, equipment and training (ex.: an ranger company, infantry regiment, armored division, etc.) which scouts/spies can determine or at least guess at. In mass combat rules an army's capability comes down to it's CR which the scouts/spies should be able to provide us. Note that there leaves plenty of room for deception on the part of the enemy or for mistakes on the part of our spies.

Admin wrote:I would say that the group has done VERY well so far this campaign. I have given you everything you need to be successful in the war with Pitax. Even if you lose a city or an entire army, It does not mean you will lose a war. How many cities did America loose to the British yet still win? I saw that the armies Pitax had coming your way were larger than I remembered so I gave you a 20 CR to shoot for because I saw what you had were not going to be enough to survive. I have been helping in the background to make sure you’re prepared. Just because you do not overtly see me doing things to keep you on track does not mean I am not doing them.

With the allies you have, the armies you are still going to create and the panache of powergaming on the players part, I think you will ultimately do fine.

I guess that remains to be seen. I'm not sure we can afford the armies of 20CRs without doing more kingdom building. Armies of CR 20 cost at least 10BP a week on campaign. This means 40 BP a month and we only have 45 in the bank. You have previously said that we would pay BP equal the army's CR + resources when the army is created and then consumption would be half the CR. In this case we clearly can't afford 20 CR army.

In addition if we loose a city all our rolls will suffer. If we fails some rolls, we could end up in a downward spiral with rising unrest giving us higher penalties on our rolls causing us to miss more rolls leading to more unrest, etc. However, I see this as part of the game so I'm just mentioning it, not complaining.

Admin wrote:I will not tell you if you should attack the King at the grounds or not. I mentioned the heavy guards so I did give you a heads up. I will answer questions you have about that situation, but I can’t tell you what to do. All I can do is help make the most informed decision you can make.
I agree that as the the DM you should not tell us whether or not to attack. As a character, Wilberd will suggest to the party that we should talk to the Pitax bard and get as much info out of her as we can. We will make our decision based on her information. This is something that should be role played.

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Re: Building Armies

Post  Wakko on Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:37 am

James. I think the DM was responding to my rambling post, not anything you said. Sorry.
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Wakko on Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:59 am

I agree that we should talk to the Pitax bard if we can get in to see her. But we should also be wary of the king sending any assassins after us. I am sure he already has people spying on us.
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Wedge on Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:03 pm

BTW we have an excess consumption of 6 so we can 'afford' armies totaling CR12.

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Re: Building Armies

Post  Wedge on Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:06 pm

Kyras Cobb wrote:James. I think the DM was responding to my rambling post, not anything you said. Sorry.

Yeah, I guess I should have read those all the way through. Sorry. Sad

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Re: Building Armies

Post  Bella on Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:09 pm

I was responding to William. I should have used quotes. Sorry.

WilberdGates wrote: First, have us create the armies that we would have had before leaving for the Rushlight tournament. This is before we knew we were going to be attacked, much less which cities would be attacked.
Then tell the story from Pythias point of view with all the information that she would receive from spies, scouts, allies, etc. This would not include information that we learned at the tournament.Then we would know how much time we have and what the threats are and could make our decisions on troop movements, hiring the Fey, etc.

I made a quick decision between how much time we had left that day and when we might be able to play with the holidays looming. I also never thought to do your second point.

WilberdGates wrote: Spies might not know what the kings plans are or which armies are being sent where but we should know the basics, at least in rough terms: kingdom size, economy (robust, middling, weak), loyalty (Is the populace very loyal, neutral, or opposed to the king), stability (very stable, stable, on the brink of collapse), military capability (Ex.: 10-12 armies of CR3 to CR7, a total of ~40 CR, plus a contingent of spellcasters.), relations with their other neighbors (friendly, neutral, hostile). This is pretty high level information that may be available from Knowledge rolls such as geography.

I appreciate the fact that an armies CR is not written on it's banners. In the real world the capabilities of a military force is based on it's size, equipment and training (ex.: an ranger company, infantry regiment, armored division, etc.) which scouts/spies can determine or at least guess at. In mass combat rules an army's capability comes down to it's CR which the scouts/spies should be able to provide us. Note that there leaves plenty of room for deception on the part of the enemy or for mistakes on the part of our spies.

This is differnet than saying the spies can give army info. This I can provide after I finish with other aspects of getting ready for Saturday. Kingmaker has way more prep time than a standard adventure because it is so open world (sandboxy). The spies did not have a clue he was about to attack. Because of this, they would not be able to say which of his armies are going to you. I can provide some of the other info soon.


WilberdGates wrote:
I guess that remains to be seen. I'm not sure we can afford the armies of 20CRs without doing more kingdom building. Armies of CR 20 cost at least 10BP a week on campaign. This means 40 BP a month and we only have 45 in the bank. You have previously said that we would pay BP equal the army's CR + resources when the army is created and then consumption would be half the CR. In this case we clearly can't afford 20 CR army.

In addition if we loose a city all our rolls will suffer. If we fails some rolls, we could end up in a downward spiral with rising unrest giving us higher penalties on our rolls causing us to miss more rolls leading to more unrest, etc. However, I see this as part of the game so I'm just mentioning it, not complaining.


Once you are done with this initial push, you may have to rely on strategy to know which armies to keep active and which ones to put back into inactive (like the allies armies as being in active costs nothing.) I would not keep all your armies in the field. Having one big or to medium armies active hunting down Pitax's forces would be better than hitting him with everything. That would keep the cost down. Allowing one city to fall to concentrate on decimating the other two attackers, then quickly taking back the other city would not create any negatives for the month. I am not saying this is a good option, just an option. You are welcome to think outside the box. Again, I KNOW what the enemy armies are planning to do and will not change them before hand. You can keep your strategies secret from me, which I would prefer.

WilberdGates wrote:
I agree that as the the DM you should not tell us whether or not to attack. As a character, Wilberd will suggest to the party that we should talk to the Pitax bard and get as much info out of her as we can. We will make our decision based on her information. This is something that should be role played.

The camp grounds are still civil, but a flurry of activity is starting within the guards. You can still talk to the bard if you want. She is taking a last sip of her ale in the make shift tavern on the tournament grounds.
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Wakko on Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:30 pm

Wilburd and the bard should talk to the lady bard. The rogue and I will stand guard.
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Re: Building Armies

Post  Bella on Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:44 pm

I'm ok with william's plan. Also, remember that your armies are on familiar ground so they get the bonus for this.
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